High-Ceiling Swedish Attic Ladder In A Busy Hardware Store

This ladder for 25" x 64" rough opening gave access for perhaps thirty years, to vast storage space over a hardware store. It is a Louisville industrial attic ladder, typical of USA construction, with flimsy 1/4" plywood door and operating hardware of far less durability than the worthy step sections; now to be scrapped. The rivets of 1x4 structure over the door panel are broken away. When standing at the opening end of the door, there is little rotational rigidity of the aluminum steps. There is an awful feeling that the ladder is not safe.

A bit unusual for a hardware store, the ceiling is up more than eleven feet (135").

A long metal pole, hook-tipped, has allowed operation from the floor. The slam-close door has no latch. Just pull it down. Use the same pole to hook and walk-out the step sections to the floor. The step section pull is also a high reach, nearer hinges, the better to resist toppling.

How could these flimsy arms without elbow locks, do much to restrain door rotation when the very tentative door rigidity is lost?

See the typical USA-ladder unstable offset of the spring pull from the upper pivot. The next failure mode, usually the killer of these unfortunate ladders, is in bending-back of the spring pull offset, perhaps when snagged by some object or personal clothing. Once bent there is no stability of the arm shape. Bending often begins with failure of the rivet attachment of the arms upper pivot due to large rotation of the ladder frame where installers don't know to drive long screws through two of the four holes in the square pivot plate, obviously for that purpose.

See failure here to install the upper pivot bonding to rough framing, so very common. The 1x4 ladder frame is not rigid.

In passing, look for an alternative available to anyone.  This might be among offerings of Rainbow Attic Stair, imported by SP Partners LLC, focusing on F-series, a very pretty industrial ladder rated to carry 570 pounds, with a 1/2" thickness plywood door, not fire-rated. These ladders are offered only with three step sections.

A really-pretty steel ladder powder-coated white, with very many clever features for user-friendliness and safety.

Here is a video description:

https://youtu.be/9pCDxq2tf80

Offered Model F22/60-11 at in excess of $2000, will not reach 11' 3". There is no adjustment flexibility in the rigid welded-steel assembly.

A Rainbow ladder that will serve at 11' 3" is Model Prestige:

Also not fire-rated. I find this uninteresting. I installed three of these between 2006 and 2007, and find them wobbly and not "industrial."

• 350 lb. weight capacity
• 7′-4″ to 11′-6″ (Varies by model – see specifications for details)
• Self adjusting stair rise
• All powder coated steel stair components.
• Strong 3/4″ melamine finish MDF frame
• Built-in 2″ steel trim – No ceiling molding needed
• 2″ Styrofoam insulated door – melamine finished on both sides
• Weather stripping to reduce drafts and air leaks
• Specialized steel hangers to simplify installation
• All steel, telescoping handrail (reversible)
• All steel grab handles at top of stair
• Protective floor bumpers
• Pole and hook for operating stair

A Swedish MidMade LEX that is fire-rated, will exceed "professional" status of any other usable ladder, at large cost savings.

My ready replacement for the Louisville ladder is a made-in-Sweden MidMade LEX 70 with 56 cm x 136 cm frame, which may be customized to serve very well, but only by me. MidMade ladders are imported to USA exclusively by Conservation Technology, in Baltimore MD. Attic ladders and access doors are a secondary opportunity to sales of superior European building gaskets and much more. The only ladder imported is the LEX 70, in frame sizes 56 cm x 118 cm and 56 cm x 136 cm. The measured maximum reach of the default larger MidMade ladder is 118.5".

And here is the installed ladder, with many inventions:

Ladder deployment is with the same hook-tipped large pole used for the Louisville ladder.

Where this commercial opportunity is to a ceiling with two layers of good drywall, 5/8" first, 1/2" below, there is seeming intent of much resistance to propagation of fire. The drywall is  completion of 2x12@24 box beam super-flooring, where top webbing is 1x8 excellent shiplap. But, fire safety concern is real. Where ever did we get a notion that any attic ladder may be not-fire-rated? So, I did what what was possible. Someday at my prompt, MidMade might build all attic ladders as fire-rated, and I have promised swap-out of the frame and door then at very little cost. 

Here are views of the completed installation:

Stowed:

Stowed

Deployed

Here is a YouTube video of the deployment and stowage of this MidMade ladder:

https://youtu.be/7nnhbayjgk0

Call the story: Someone forgot to turn off the attic lights.

A Drop-Down Attic Access Hatch

Crawling eight feet into this small attic space to connect bath fan ducts will be a challenge. There was no access and I must invent and build my own hatch cover. Employ this opportunity, to invent a well-insulated airtight hatch cover that drops out of the ceiling. With ducting and tools pushed ahead, I must not share space with and perhaps break the cover.

Finding the best ceiling cut is error-prone. Excess demolition is resolved with an easy plaster patch. Easy if you have learned to employ Scructolite plaster, and other patching techniques. A fifty pound bag is perishable and a burdensome investment for occasional patching. I apportion a bag to a couple-dozen airtight plastic jars, then lasting indefinitely.

Here is the prepared opening for the invented hatch cover, with neat plaster applied up to steel-angle edges. The outer frame is a tight-fitting part of the hatch assembly and is pinned in place at best centering in the edged rough opening, by wood shims.

Here is plaster smoothed with my tough flexible grout, and the inserted hatch cover. The cover is securely held by two pull-push latches of European origin, purchased from Fakro USA. I have trimmed excess dimensions of the cover face, GP Densarmor drywall, to overall clearances of 3/8".The cover is not heavy, but be under it upon a ladder while attaching or detaching.

Here is the rough frame, a maximum of found space between ceiling joists and 1x3 that cross the joists and support the plaster lath.

And here is the assembled cross section with latching.

The latch pair was purchased from Fakro USA, where it is employed in several families of Fakro attic ladders. The eye bolt is found to be unsuited to its job, where movement at the nutted end is not linear and the latch slot it engages is too small to accommodate its movement arc with the bolt near-vertical. I conclude that the pull is intended to be small-diameter wire rope. There is no need for the pull to be rigid, of beefy 3/16" OD. By measurements and trial & error, know that the pull center must be 2.5" from the latch edge. Enlarging the slot for the bolt is a workable but poor solution.

At 6/9/2024, I have ordered this wire cable set that should serve better with the Fakro latch if employed in a current attic ladder project.

In fact for the attic ladder project, I think there will be a better latch,

Let every project be a shared learning experience, and a ready resource for recall of my own learning. 

My attic access job continues with achievement of the customer motives of fixing dysfunctional bath fans.

The bath fan with bad ducting must be replaced, to achieve proper ducting. Choose Panasonic FV11-VQ1, 

The found fan discharged through this:

Except that flow is entirely stalled in a squirrel-cage fan with an immediate 90° bend, flow resistance is not much different from the new installation, just losing all velocity head of developed flow in a 4" pipe, K = 1, resistance beyond a bend.

If K = 0.5 for a 90° entry bend and K = 0.15 for a 30° entry bend, then add K = 1 in either case, the flow resistance comparison is not telling.

8" aluminum flex ducting was bonded not-at-all airtight, into an existing Norwesco NWE RCV-4 static vent, 50 sq in net free area. There was no backdraft damper! The untrained fan installer thought it would be a good idea to cut out the screen. The fan backdraft damper remained functional stopping cold air and warmth-seeking bugs, but too many "American" fans have failed backdraft dampers.

Here is the completed new duct installation, an elbow set to 30°, a two-foot length of smooth pipe, and an elbow mating with a roof cap through an about-60° bend. Not much resistance, and no flow stall.

I always employ a Roof Penetration Adapter for a through-roof duct. I accomplished this tuck with removal of only two roofing nails.

On occasion, as here, the roof cap can't be tucked under a shingle row for appearances-sake. No matter. The cap is only a rain cover.

Know that discharge through proper new ducting with 30° bend, is strong. There was no noticeable flow from the now-scrapped Broan fan. Blame the foolish elbow placement, and foolishness of  all bath fans vs. thoughtful always-learning design of Panasonic fans. I can readily call a Panasonic technician in New Jersey, at 866-292-7292. I have done that here, reporting (again), that fan installation should always be as retrofit. No serviceable appliance may be captured, demanding demolition for replacement. Well, that is what I believe, but I don't find confirming building code. Still, to trap a bath fan above drywall is really mean and stupid. Panasonic should presume installers will insert the fan body though a drywall cut prescribed by a template in the fan packaging, body flange then below drywall. The Panasonic instructions badly mislead all who will suffer consequences at a future replacement. See that graphics are those of a compact ceiling, not attic, fan, for all fan models. The compact fan is less efficient and should be avoided.

One compact fan Panasonic FV11-VF1 was installed in a basement, in this job. A basement overhead will usually allow a full-height fan, but some non-structural 2x4s reduced the headroom. Builders should want Panasonic fans and they should not be constrained by allowed obstructions.

Being a Diligence Reporter

This post is a further service to my customer, giving a succinct, durable record of interesting query and innovation in his service.  Please read more upon the subject of Diligence Reporting, collecting writing by Label.

Roof Penetration Adapters and a Composition Shingle Overlay

In April of 2023 I had the opportunity to observe benefit of Roof Penetration Adapters of through-roof bath and kitchen fan ducts at roof caps, in a DIY overly re-roof of my own home, now a rental.

A white roof will measurably reduce summertime heat burdens,*   and reduce heating-season radiation loss of energy to night skies. This is Owens Corning Shasta White, not much in demand and in limited supply.

* Google and Yale Environmental 360 affirm this.

I don't worry about moss or other discoloration because my neighbor to the South taught me that roof life is extended by yearly application of a 50-50 mix of 20 mule team borax and powder laundry detergent. I have added a six year confirmation in this to that of 25 years for my neighbor. I didn't like using commonly and wrongly-applied copper sulfate.

Here, I confronted the steel roof cap of the 6" steel duct from the kitchen exhaust fan, Panasonic in-line. The roof cap is Famco PB6BK, modified with maximum circular enlargement of the back opening, salvaging the backdraft damper of the 6" pipe stem. See my as-always surprising treatment of the roof cap as merely a rain cover. There is no need to deeply tuck the cap under shingles. Not knowing the full story, a roofer will see this as error. That thing is going to leak! 

A separate Roof Penetration Adapter here seen inverted, is under that roof cap, tucked even under roof membrane. A 6" pipe male end tightly engages the ID. My adapters for now are 12" square aluminum plates spinning-formed to about 1" tall upward stem. $25 each, hard work, not sustainable. Production adapters would be stamped inexpensively. I or some other fabricator, await demand. Reader: please get interested.

The Famco backdraft damper is now riveted to the spun-aluminum 6" roof cap.

There are no leaks anywhere in the thirty year old expired shingling I applied as a tear-off at house age fifty years, replacing much rotted 1x8 shiplap with a reserve of lumber found in the attic. The durable underlayment is 20 pound felt nowhere brittle, overlaying the penetration adapter of the four remodel fan ducts that I had installed over a span of twenty years; this the most recent. I trust the penetration adapter, now buried one layer deeper, to protect against leakage at any layer, for the life of my new reroof. Just snip the new shingles about a 6 1/2" circle. Roof cement at-the-ready for any first-layer rebuild, isn't of value here.

Reset the roof cap, now with less-pretty alignment with the shingle pattern.

With little nibbling of top-layer shingles, the rain barrier  hinges down, perfectly aligned with the duct.

Here is a job photo from a customer installation of a Famco PB8BK, with more challenge from hacked-in termination of a 6" kitchen exhaust with needless enlargement to an 8" cap then leaking.

The 8" penetration adapter with 12" square surround is tucked under scrap sheet metal or shingle that reaches as high as possible, directly against the underlayment, for full shingle effectiveness.

This is far better than simple jamming-in of a roof cap, which had leaked. If there is a second layer of shingles someday, this roof cap will still work with no diminished effectiveness.

See visible, smart use of appropriate gasketed screws.

Open Letter To ASHRAE and ACCA, Better HVAC Air Ducts In Our Homes

 The following is a re-posting of a Google Docs document that will be subject to constant correction and update from reader comments.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o3j4ayBkhDhq8U9HVDwYujwKQCOQLpANUYvNFKFWfco/edit?usp=sharing

Better HVAC Air Ducts In Our Homes

The following message is sent to the Duct Design leadership at ACCA and to ASHRAE Ducts Design Committee colleagues, TC 5.2.

From my PhD-level work forty to fifty years ago, with hydraulics of pressurized water nuclear power generators, I have an understanding of HVAC duct design with direct application of Bernoulli Principle.  This understanding contradicts ACCA Manual D design of residential HVAC ducts, where there is no usage even of the word Bernoulli. By ACCA methods, nothing is seen as wrong in silly long too-small ducts that sprout Medusa-like from beloved D-boxes and assorted Supply Trunks. Absent Bernoulli math, air is somehow transported as if it were no-energy toothpaste. Static pressures change and diminish for reasons little-known, not controllable. Manual D pros say: Just squeeze enough at the blower,to push the needed flow. Flow violence and attendant inefficiencies are only a noise problem.  Ignorance is revealed in non-scientific phrases total static pressure and total external static pressure.

With Bernoulli energy balances, we have spectral local values of static pressure and kinetic head, additive to  total pressure..Energy losses attendant to poor design are more-usefully computed, than measured. Better than computing penalties, use common sense to avoid them. Let the controlling flow resistance in any path be at the register discharge to ambient. Find folly always in trying to fix a mess with use of dampers. Resize any register and its approaching duct, to deal with complaints.

Please see a best demonstration of my duct construction and  analysis methods in one home:

Duct Hydraulic Analysis, Koempel

Koempel Job Photo Album

Blog Post An Attic Ladder Installed Diagonal to Attic Floor Framing

Blog Post Flawed Measurement Of R-Value With A Certainteed InsulSafe4 Gage

I have several similar achievements to share:

Chamberlain-Mann Crawl Space Ducts Hydraulic Analysis

Chamberlain-Mann Crawl Space Job Photos

Waters HVAC Ducts Plan

Waters Attics All Photos

Duct Hydraulic Analysis, Leet Rental

Blog Post, Leet Rental Crawl Space

Leet Rental CS Overhaul

Leet Home Better Furnace Ducts

HVAC Ducts Hydraulic Analysis_Meyer

Job Album, Meyer Attic

Find more duct redesign from found cheap industry expectations. Employ shop-built fittings, often lined with insulation. No leaky, inefficient on-the-job hacks to just make connections. Ducts are buried as much as possible, never placed carelessly, obstructing access.

Blog Post: Best Placement of an In-Attic Gas Furnace, Among Roof Trusses

Blog Post: More Furnace Plena and Flex Duct Quality Work

Blog Post: Following ACEEE Blog, Furnace Fans As Energy Hog

Blog Post: Better In-Attic Furnace Ducting

Blog Post: Steel Ducts Heat Capacity, Forced Hot Air Heat

My insight in all of this is with confidence from my work in the nuclear power industry where a key achievement was in the reversal of a management decision that the cost of reactor pressure vessels should be reduced by making the inlet and outlet nozzle forgings abrupt, sharp-edged, no chamfering. A million dollar scale-model flow test under my direction proved that flow is then with damaging violence. Such silliness.

Please see that these contributions are extraordinary. All measures taken for energy efficiency are affordable. The wonderful sheet metal shop that enables my work shall wish for more customers like me. At present the cleverness I offer to customers has insufficient demand.

ACCA Manual D does not offer scientific best methods. Together ASHRAE and ACCA must offer better guidance. I want to help.

Phillip Norman <pjnorman@gmail.com>

1764 Bonniebrae Drive

Lake Oswego, Oregon 97034

503-255-4350