A Drop-Down Attic Access Hatch

Crawling eight feet into this small attic space to connect bath fan ducts will be a challenge. There was no access and I must invent and build my own hatch cover. Employ this opportunity, to invent a well-insulated airtight hatch cover that drops out of the ceiling. With ducting and tools pushed ahead, I must not share space with and perhaps break the cover.

At 3/11/2025, at last edit that claim about safety with 7:12 roof pitch.

This is the Search Labs  AI result of Google search: 

What range of roof pitch is safely walkable?

Generally, roofs with a pitch of 6/12 or lower are considered relatively walkable, while anything steeper, like 7/12 or higher, requires caution and potentially specialized equipment or professionals. 

At 7:12 pitch I was roped and harnessed whenever without  secure piping-above or roof-above constant  hand holds. The danger with a shift of balance not restrained,  is evident. It is good to know pitch reliably measured with pitch gage overlay on a photo. I do the overlay in Adobe FrameMaker. I hope you can do likewise somehow.

Finding the best ceiling cut is error-prone. Excess demolition is resolved with an easy plaster patch. Easy if you have learned to employ Scructolite plaster, and other patching techniques. A fifty pound bag is perishable and a burdensome investment for occasional patching. I apportion a bag to a couple-dozen airtight plastic jars, then lasting indefinitely.

Here is the prepared opening for the invented hatch cover, with neat plaster applied up to steel-angle edges. The outer frame is a tight-fitting part of the hatch assembly and is pinned in place at best centering in the edged rough opening, by wood shims.

Here is plaster smoothed with my tough flexible grout, and the inserted hatch cover. The cover is securely held by two pull-push latches of European origin, purchased from Fakro USA. I have trimmed excess dimensions of the cover face, GP Densarmor drywall, to overall clearances of 3/8".The cover is not heavy, but be under it upon a ladder while attaching or detaching.

Here is the rough frame, a maximum of found space between ceiling joists and 1x3 that cross the joists and support the plaster lath.

And here is the assembled cross section with latching.

The latch pair was purchased from Fakro USA, where it is employed in several families of Fakro attic ladders. The eye bolt is found to be unsuited to its job, where movement at the nutted end is not linear and the latch slot it engages is too small to accommodate its movement arc with the bolt near-vertical. I conclude that the pull is intended to be small-diameter wire rope. There is no need for the pull to be rigid, of beefy 3/16" OD. By measurements and trial & error, know that the pull center must be 2.5" from the latch edge. Enlarging the slot for the bolt is a workable but poor solution.

At 6/9/2024, I have ordered this wire cable set that should serve better with the Fakro latch if employed in a current attic ladder project.

In fact for the attic ladder project, I think there will be a better latch,

Let every project be a shared learning experience, and a ready resource for recall of my own learning. 

My attic access job continues with achievement of the customer motives of fixing dysfunctional bath fans.

The bath fan with bad ducting must be replaced, to achieve proper ducting. Choose Panasonic FV11-VQ1, 

The found fan discharged through this:

Except that flow is entirely stalled in a squirrel-cage fan with an immediate 90° bend, flow resistance is not much different from the new installation, just losing all velocity head of developed flow in a 4" pipe, K = 1, resistance beyond a bend.

If K = 0.5 for a 90° entry bend and K = 0.15 for a 30° entry bend, then add K = 1 in either case, the flow resistance comparison is not telling.

8" aluminum flex ducting was bonded not-at-all airtight, into an existing Norwesco NWE RCV-4 static vent, 50 sq in net free area. There was no backdraft damper! The untrained fan installer thought it would be a good idea to cut out the screen. The fan backdraft damper remained functional stopping cold air and warmth-seeking bugs, but too many "American" fans have failed backdraft dampers.

Here is the completed new duct installation, an elbow set to 30°, a two-foot length of smooth pipe, and an elbow mating with a roof cap through an about-60° bend. Not much resistance, and no flow stall.

I always employ a Roof Penetration Adapter for a through-roof duct. I accomplished this tuck with removal of only two roofing nails.

On occasion, as here, the roof cap can't be tucked under a shingle row for appearances-sake. No matter. The cap is only a rain cover.

Know that discharge through proper new ducting with 30° bend, is strong. There was no noticeable flow from the now-scrapped Broan fan. Blame the foolish elbow placement, and foolishness of  all bath fans vs. thoughtful always-learning design of Panasonic fans. I can readily call a Panasonic technician in New Jersey, at 866-292-7292. I have done that here, reporting (again), that fan installation should always be as retrofit. No serviceable appliance may be captured, demanding demolition for replacement. Well, that is what I believe, but I don't find confirming building code. Still, to trap a bath fan above drywall is really mean and stupid. Panasonic should presume installers will insert the fan body though a drywall cut prescribed by a template in the fan packaging, body flange then below drywall. The Panasonic instructions badly mislead all who will suffer consequences at a future replacement. See that graphics are those of a compact ceiling, not attic, fan, for all fan models. The compact fan is less efficient and should be avoided.

One compact fan Panasonic FV11-VF1 was installed in a basement, in this job. A basement overhead will usually allow a full-height fan, but some non-structural 2x4s reduced the headroom. Builders should want Panasonic fans and they should not be constrained by allowed obstructions.

View the flappered outlet of the fan adapter assembly, before insertion of the fan body

Being a Diligence Reporter

This post is a further service to my customer, giving a succinct, durable record of interesting query and innovation in his service.  Please read more upon the subject of Diligence Reporting , collecting writing by Label. A blog post is not always part of the diligence. A blog post is inspired by seeing something new, discovered in the job.

Mandatory Attic Access Walkways

I submitted the following among proposals for 2018 revision of the International Energy Conservation Code:

Proposal submitted 1/4/2016:

R402.2.4 Access hatches and doors. Hinged doors and lift portals from conditioned spaces to unconditioned spaces (e.g. attics, unconditioned basements and crawl spaces) shall be insulated to the Energy Star standards of exterior opaque swinging doors, and shall be air sealed with well-fitting gaskets. The portal frame shall be sealed air tight in its rough opening. (The standard says: U-Factor ≤ 0.17)

The entry to an attic space at a portal shall have a surround of an ample raised floor that does not diminish insulation value. Flooring shall protect insulation against trampling while giving safe passage, to all attic electrical service points including fans, lights and junction boxes. Junction boxes not accessible from heated space shall be raised above insulation and flooring levels, or where this has failed, shall be flagged as a decked service point. Accessible service points shall include static vents that require periodic cleaning. Where a service point is buried in insulation, insulation over the service point shall be in batt form and tolerant of displacement for accessing the service point.

Existing code of 2015 says:

R402.2.4 Access hatches and doors. Access doors from conditioned spaces to unconditioned spaces such as attics and crawl spaces shall be weatherstripped and insulated to a level equivalent to the insulation on the surrounding surfaces. Access shall be provided to all equipment that prevents damaging or compressing the insulation. A wood- framed or equivalent baffle or retainer is required to be provided when loose-fill insulation is installed, the purpose of which is to prevent the loose-fill insulation from spilling into the living space when the attic access is opened, and to provide a permanent means of maintaining the installed R-value of the loose-fill insulation. 

All of this, and supporting statements offered to conference readers, is summarized in page Better Building Codes For Access Portals, at my web site r5portals.

I defended my proposal at 2016 Committee Action Hearings of the International Code Council in Louisville, KY, on April 18, 2016. There was expressed disdain in the matter of insulation value of a practical hatch, that I cited rival Energy Star standards, and no acknowledgement of my comprehensive math proof, that modest insulation is best; more on that elsewhere. Here, address the second-paragraph flooring requirement, forcefully opposed by one of the rotating intervenors of the National Association  of Home Builders. I took this opposition as formidable, in judges unanimously disapproving my proposal. Several participants privately encouraged me to persist in this and some of my other proposals, but no one came forward as an ally, to help if I would double my onerous personal investment, to offer and defend revised proposals, in Public Comment Hearings, Kansas City.  Those "final" hearings were concluded a week ago, and I was not there. To not feel defeated, I must believe that I am intent upon readiness to try again in the next of the three-year code cycles; then having time to enlist allies.

Here, add defense of the second paragraph of my proposal. I have a really-good example to share, of work done in Oregon City, Oregon June to July, 2016. A customer had discovered that large areas of the attics in his two-year-old home had no insulation. Hard to believe, but evidence showed in zonal early frost melt on the roof, unlike neighboring homes. 500 sq ft was bare, some seen in this view.  I suggest that a mandatory walkway here and an access cut further on, would have led to different and better construction choices. Impaired access is not good, for anyone.

In this photo see beginning of rapid and easy change. The scattered temporary plywood is important to my safety. I have cut down a horrible 16"  OSB skirt about the small access hole.

Move interfering HVAC ducts, and temporarily detach a bath fan duct. Separate HVAC flex ducts at a wye, and move them under the diagonal truss members.

Many trips are needed along a new smooth and level walkway, upon 32" bridges of truss elements. Cut batts to fit, in the garage, and carry pieces in a growing collection of empty insulation bags. A safe passageway should not be an afterthought. Many good things, not least worker safety, result from good access. Let access be lighted too. At least, let workers find power outlets to not rely on a flashlight.

In this access exercise, learn some lessons about HVAC duct installation, attic ventilation and a further thoughtless neglect of access. Preserving duct length is very important as ducts are disassembled and reset. Yet, I must sacrifice about 6" from each flex duct at this wye, because of remnant bad advice of PTCS trainers in the service area of Bonneville Power Administration. Goop, no longer required, should never be applied for liner attachment.

Goop applied blindly and in risk of clothing, missed this under-side zone of the main branch of the wye. There was duct leakage, out of sight. UL181 Nashua 557 tape easily achieves zero leakage here, and is the right choice for easiest damage-free separation of ducts for maintenance or replacement. Know that flexible ducts have claimed useful service life of not more than ten years . See example of Thermaflex ducts as fallen-apart rat paths after about 25 years .

I know that regardless of found condition, I must replace cardboard soffit vent baffles. They rarely survive more than thirty years and when used are with no manufacturer thought or guarantee of acceptable service life (sixty years!). Here I have more than conscience in play. Curl with detached flimsy staples is ugly. Looking down at vent bird block, see poor bird block design employed by most builders. Slot placement demands vent baffles 3 1/2" down from roof sheathing, a large sacrifice of potential insulation depth over exterior wall headers. This bird block is needed in every available roof joist bay, not in every fourth.

Lumber for proper soffit vent baffles is free, in good employment of job scrap. Use 25 cents of good deck screws, not nails. I assembled six baffles in thirty minutes. This is quicker than setting a $1 cardboard baffle, thus less expensive. Wood sleds are easily adapted for obstructions, then set much more securely.

Baffles just 32" tall are ample over R45 batts. I can push R30 top-layer batts tightly against a baffle, for fullest insulation value, and that is the controlling economy.

A hidden attic around this corner was uninsulated too. The triangular access is new. Opportunity was concealed behind redundant OSB sheathing.

While I am at this I will insulate over the garage too, to just R15. I can't bear to crawl there carrying insulation, through this jungle of beam and variable trusses.

Cut in a new access for the garage, "factory built" in my shop. Where truss bottom elements are 2x4, they must not carry loads unless strengthened as composite beams. Leave a couple of 9" rips of plywood that I needed for my safety, but not more flooring.

Here is the fully-dimensioned plan of my hatch, offered to anyone as noted here.

At June 18, 2021, I revisit this post upon reading the post of this date at Insulation Institute Blog: A Hot New Home and Missing Insulation. I see that this post should go further upon process of inspection, not just means of inspection. Process should be for information to the builder and ultimate home owner and not just a manager of building permits. Building permits delve in the short-term self-interest of a builder, to get a certificate of occupancy. They involve inspection requirements  often flouted. by disinterested and unmotivated municipal employees, who take an easy path where inspection is difficult or impossible.

Get better results where inspection is primarily in service of the self interest of the home occupants ever-after. Those citizens of the community  are the real employers of the inspectors. Let these employers then receive indelible proof of critical performance items in the form of pdf documents I call Diligence Reports. A diligence report is created by a professional technical writer rated for integrity and skill in taking photos and notes from the builder daily to generate each required Diligence Report. Report contents are driven by task checklists, and comply with simple national standards. The involvement of three parties in the satisfaction of checklists ensures honesty. 

A recent customer was fascinated with the notion of Diligence Reporting, and made this hat for me! 

I wondered when I would first find cause to share the humor.

Fixing Up Houses That Will Be Sold

I attended Energy Trust Of Oregon's  3/18/2014  Portland-Area Residential Trade Ally Roundtable  meeting of the staff of ETO, with contractors, realtors and many others,  who are affected by their actions. These meetings happen about quarterly, and are open to anyone. Affected contractors attend to be told of autocratic and erratic policy changes and of valuable deals gifted to those who cooperate in the glory of Energy Trust. I try to attend every Roundtable meeting, investing a half day in monitoring and trying to affect Energy Trust actions. Those in attendance are mostly the takers of unfair and undeserved largess, which can be thousands of dollars each year in "cooperative marketing" money doled out recklessly. I do not take this dirty money.

I suppose Energy Trust is authorized to advertise its programs, with some effort at brand recognition. Using money perhaps allowed for advertising as power to enforce programs of fraud (the lies that a blower door is the means and measure of weatherization) and unauthorized and hugely expensive business adventure (creating and pushing Energy Performance Score ), is wrong. In accomplishing weatherization, no advantage shall be given to those who cooperate with Energy Trust, against those who choose a more-honest path.

To me, the highlight of this meeting was this slide. I wish this were more legible, but can state the numbers that prompt this post.

This is all Energy Trust wishes to accomplish in 2014, in what I consider its best reason to exist, promoting home weatherization.

Please compare this to a summary in my post of January 22, 2014, "Progress In Residential Weatherization? ".  

I had thought the pitiful achievement was of houses weatherized. In fact, numbers are annual totals for all measures completed. The number of houses treated in any year, is about one fourth of the table number, currently about 2000 homes per year. The biggest measure count is in replacement windows. With windows, on average there is probably one more measure for a house in that year. The same houses of diligence might pepper the list over several years where budgeted from available cash.

Where conscience in residential weatherization is the main factor in accepting the tax of our Public Purpose Fund, the performance of Energy Trust is a disgrace. At least through rebated action, we are getting nowhere in our needful quest to avert climate disaster and personal disaster when, very soon, energy costs will double and more, leaving many of us, unprepared, to freeze. The most pitiful of us will be those taking up foreclosed homes, unimproved by the monstrous bankers and their enabling politicians. Any of us with unimproved homes under onerous mortgage will find it hard to find cash to do right in weatherization.

Let us save the likes of Energy Trust Of Oregon in their unsatisfied quest to do something useful with their many millions of dollars allocated through taxes . I want Oregon to set an example for the nation in this, as we proudly did in following British Columbia to be first in USA with a responsible Bottle Bill. We need to create a State Bank, to allow our money to have useful local consequence and to be pulled back from risk in still-legal and rampant derivatives speculation. I want an Oregon State Bank to invest securely in residential weatherization and all crucial home maintenance home owners might not afford. Security is in the steady repayment of loans when homes are sold. An efficient home without maintenance gotchas sells best, to the advantage of everyone. Investments regulated in the public financing, will be better.

Consider the size of the needed allocation of State Bank funds in Oregon. If 500,000 homes were treated in measures with under ten years payback, finding on average $2,000 per home opportunity, the reserve is of $One Billion. We have $100 Billion highly at risk, as play money for Wall Street gamblers.

I think the way to begin this is to require that all sold homes have an honest basket of weatherization in them. It can be done. When each house is sold, more easily, the loan of full measures cost, is immediately repaid. The loan plan is not only for weatherization. All critical repairs must be done, including roofing, plumbing and wiring defects that impair home survival. What kind of person might oppose this plan?

At 4/2/2014 add insights of a visitor to my booth at Portland's Better Living Show, that weatherization is being sold mostly outside the control of Energy Trust. Home owners are told that work can be done at less cost, despite sacrifice of rebates. This is horrible, if true. Work not qualifying for rebates will always be the blow and go missing of real savings opportunities in  the attic floor, and worse. These dishonest contractors will always cheat on depth of their awful ruin of old attics, blocking access of an honest contractor who might have the will to repair the crime. I have only seen this situation once, a madness of cellulose. I offered to assist a suit against the contractor not named. The sorry home owner apparently chose to just go on living under his deeper trash heap, still with piles of roof debris, now buried, out of sight.


At 4/9/2018 I have struggled to recall the word regressive , as descriptive of failed policies in weatherization throughout USA, where resources apply only as rebates upon work afforded up-front, by the more-affluent. From deep within, I have been repelled by the rebates regime. I have always known, it can not deliver. Where the "poor" are pooh-poohed with cheapest, least durable weatherization, it is often delivered by a different class of contractor less supervised of integrity, and we shamefully are accepting of that. Every home like every child, is of equal standing in the collective good. We must find means that strength lifting us all, is not squandered. We must stop giving away the majority of public purpose funds, to a favored few, however random and unintentional that may be.